Warning:
This page contains outdated information. It is not updated anymore.
It is - mmh - well, you remember the Monty Phyton sketch about the parrot
that would not move? We nonetheless hope that some form of real alternative
computing - call it transAM, phoenix or whatever you like - will appear
in the future and take from us the burden of PC-style hardware.
DISCLAIMER: All information here is provided as-is. Use it on your own
risc. The maintainers are not responsible for any damage caused by incorrect
or obsolete information presented here.
-
early 1999: The FAQ is handed over to Gary L. Davenport
-
sometime in 1998: Leon and Daniel discontinue maintance of the pios one
faq
-
10-Jul-1997: Created 6.2
-
03-Jul-1997: Addition to 2.1 (release date).
-
01-Jul-1997: Some changes in 3.1.3 (basic upgrades)
and 3.9 (future plans).
-
28-Jun-1997: Added 3.2.5 (memory modules), 3.1.4
(L2 cache) and 3.1.5 (non-PIOS MPU boards), some
changes in chapter 5 (companies).
Table of Contents
-
1.1 What is this FAQ about?
-
1.2 Where can I get the latest version of this FAQ?
-
1.3 Where can I get further information?
-
2.1 When can I buy a PIOS ONE?
-
2.2 Where can I buy a PIOS ONE?
-
2.3 What's the current state of the PIOS ONE?
-
2.4 What's the difference between the transAm and the
Maxxtrem packages?
-
2.5 Where may I see pictures of the system?
-
2.6 But what will it all cost?
-
2.7 Isn't there a "bare bones" version?
-
2.8 Is it possible to get the TransAM without the Siamese
system?
-
3.1 What's on the microprocessing module?
-
3.1.1 What microprocessor does the PIOS ONE use?
-
3.1.2 When will multiprocessor cards be available?
-
3.1.3 Is it possible to upgrade without changing the
microprocessing module?
-
3.1.4 Is the L2 cache on the PIOS ONE synchronous or
asynchronous?
-
3.1.5 Are other companies planing a MPU module for the
PIOS ONE?
-
3.2 How's the memory configuration?
-
3.2.1 Why not more memory slots?
-
3.2.2 Is the PIOS ONE able to use SDRAM?
-
3.2.3 Can I mix different memory module types and sizes?
-
3.2.4 What is memory going to cost me?
-
3.2.5 How many DIMM modules will the PIOS ONE have?
-
3.3 What's CHRP?
-
3.4 What's the "null series"?
-
3.5 What's the Siamese System?
-
3.6 What's on the mainboard?
-
3.6.1 What's that IrDa header?
-
3.7 What does the graphic hardware look like?
-
3.7.1 What graphics card will the PIOS ONE have?
-
3.7.2 Why don't they build custom graphics chips?
-
3.8 What case will the PIOS ONE have?
-
3.9 What are PIOS' future plans?
-
3.10 May the PIOS ONE use those PCI and ISA cards from
the PC?
-
3.11 Where to find technical references about PIOS ONE?
-
4.1 Will I be able to stay Amiga compatible?
-
4.2 Operating systems
-
4.2.1 Available OSs for the PIOS machines
-
4.2.2 OSs being ported to the PIOS machines
-
4.2.3 Will I be able to choose the operating system
at startup?
-
4.3 Software development
-
4.4 But how about real productivity applications?
-
5.1 PIOS
-
5.2 Be
-
5.3 Motorola
-
5.4 proDad
-
6.1 What are all those abbreviations?
-
6.2 Things that do not suck[tm]
1 Introduction
1.1 What is this FAQ about?
These are the frequently asked questions (FAQs) on the subject of the new
computer called the PIOS ONE from PIOS Computer AG, Germany.
To keep people from frequently answering these FAQs, this FAQ has been
errected.
1.2 Where can I get the latest version of this FAQ?
http://www.emsnet.de/~gerpen
is the most recent version of this FAQ.
1.3 Where can I get further information about the
PIOS ONE?
There is the "TeamONE" mailing list where topics related to the PIOS ONE
are discussed. Just send a message with this body text:
add myname@my.domain.here TeamONE
to this listserver address:
listserv@nostromo.gate.net
You may of course also look at the PIOS webpages (http://www.pios.de/).
These contain links to web pages on the PPC, BeOS, etc. Additional sources
are listed in chapter 5.
The PIOS ONE is also discussed on Usenet, you may find PIOS-related
postings in the BeOS [comp.sys.be.*], PowerPC [comp.sys.powerpc.*] and
Amiga [(de.)comp.sys.amiga.*] hierachies.
If you are really desperate, you can always visit Alta Vista (http://www.altavista.com/)
or DejaNews (http://www.dejanews.com/)
and search for whatever you like.
2 General
2.1 When can I buy a PIOS ONE?
No final release date was announced yet. But now it seems to be around
September 1997...
Dave Haynie in <199704070624.CAA02825@zeus.jersey.net>:
"I'm hoping we're past the initial pilot production run (NULL series)
by June. But things never happen as fast as you like."
[Note well, this is only about the "null series"]
Dr. Peter Kittel wrote in <m0wEGJ6-001jS2C@mail.bs.tpl.net>:
"First the prototype has to work satisfyingly. Then the null series
is built after this model. If these devices don't show big problems in
the field, the regular series (transAM, Maxxtrem) is built."
and in <m0wjQcT-0006PxC@mail.bs.tpl.net>:
"If all goes without the slightest flaw from now (I can't swear for
this), then it will be September."
2.2 Where can I buy a PIOS ONE?
At almost all the old Amiga dealers plus all Apple dealers in Germany.
2.3 What's the current state of the PIOS ONE?
The hardware is being debugged. When this is done, and there are no major
bugs in the prototypes, the "null series" will be shipped to some developers
(and to all those people who could not wait any longer :-).
If the "null series" are still not perfect, some further modifications
will be made on the PIOS ONE. And then it will be released to the public.
2.4 What's the difference between the transAM and
the Maxxtrem packages?
The PIOS ONE will be available in two versions; The transAM and the Maxxtrem.
The transAM is intended for Amiga users and will ship with an "Amiga
to PIOS ONE"-adaptor; the Siamese System. The Maxxtrem is for the Apple
Macintosh market. The two systems differ in these ways: (for a full
list of hardware present on both, see 3.6)
-
Maxxtrem
-
Hardware
-
Mac floppy drive with the (in)famous auto-eject mechanism.
-
Apple Desktop Bus (ADB) instead of one of the RS-422 ports. ADB is used
by many Mac programs, some important peripherals and dongles.
-
no ISA slots.
-
Software
-
transAM
-
Hardware
-
a standard floppy drive;
-
a second RS-422 ports instead of an ADB;
-
ISA slots;
-
Siamese System.
-
Software
2.5 Where may I see pictures of the system?
Look at the PIOS homepage (http://www.pios.de/).
2.6 But what will it all cost?
Dave Haynie said in <199703211801.NAA51736@inca.gate.net>:
"The current plan is to offer three basic bundles. For under $1000,
you can get a stripped PIOS One with 133MHz MPU, board set and casework
only. You fill in the graphics, memory, hard disc, CD-ROM, etc. Of course,
it comes with all the software.
There will be two 200MHz bundles, as talked about at CeBIT. The transAM
system is targeted at Amiga users, the Maxxtrem is targeted at the MacOS
market. These will come with memory, graphics card, discs, etc. The target
price here is under $1500."
2.7 Isn't there a "bare bones" version?
Yes, there is. It will include the mainboard and the MPU board, case, cables
and the software (operating systems). It will NOT include graphics card,
harddisk, floppy, keyboard, mouse. It will feature a PPC 603e MPU at 133
MHz and 8 MB of RAM.
The bare bones variant is meant for dealers, so that they can add the
rest of the needed hardware and configure it to the customer's wishes.
2.8 Is it possible to get the TransAM without the
Siamese system?
No. It seems that PIOS has an agreement with the producer to ship every
transAM with the Siamese System. After all it would not make much sense
to call the machine "transAM" if it did not include some Amiga-related
hardware (i.e. the Siamese System).
Dr. Peter Kittel wrote in <m0wD4c1-001jS5C@mail.bs.tpl.net>:
"When you define a bundle then you can only get an attractive price
from the producer when you guarantee him complete coverage. That's the
rule of the bundling game always."
3 Hardware
3.1 What's on the microprocessing module?
A microprocessing module plugs into the mainboard MPU module slot. The
MPU module contains more than just the MPU(s):
-
one or more MPUs
-
external L2 cache
-
3 memory slots for 64 bit 3.3V DIMMs
-
MPC106 "Grackle" PPC-PCI bridge "Grackle" / Memory and cache controller
3.1.1 What MPU does the PIOS ONE MPU module use?
The first versions of the PIOS ONE will feature a PPC 603e from Motorola
at either 133 or 200 MHz. After that there will be multiprocessor cards
with faster processors from the PPC series.
The MPU module of the PIOS ONE allows for other PPCs models like for
example the 604 or the yet-to-be-released G3-MPUs. It may even use processors
from a completely different chip-family.
3.1.2 When will multiprocessor cards be available?
Dave Haynie in <199704140353.XAA20508@zeus.jersey.net>:
"As early as "sometime this summer". Cost isn't yet determined, but
we do hope to keep these on the "affordable" side as well. Obviously, if
you have to pay twice as much for a multiprocessor system, you're not getting
a good deal."
3.1.3 Is it possible to upgrade without changing
the MPU module?
Dave Haynie wrote in <199703231944.OAA09757@zeus.jersey.net>:
"There's a fair chance you'll have some basic upgrade capability on
the initial uniprocessor board. We had to add a socket for hook up logic
analyzers, and Motorola has produced a specification for just such a socket,
which can also be used for limited upgrades."
and in <33b773aa.438806370@news.jersey.net>:
"Our initial system (in the works, but not yet shipping) can be upgraded
to a second CPU, BeBox style -- dual PPC603es (though more likely at 200MHz),
and you do have to disable the L2 cache. This type of system will be a
whole lot nicer when we get PPC750s, because the dedicated L2 cache bus
lets us use the standard Motorola system chip (MPC106) and still have L2
caches. The PIOS One design supports two CPUs out of the box."
The PPC604/PPC604e will plug into the initial MPU card.
3.1.4 Is the L2 cache on the PIOS ONE synchronous
or asynchronous?
Dave Haynie wrote in <199705150505.BAA25316@zeus.jersey.net>:
"Pipelined burst synchronous cache. It runs 3:1:1:1 or 4:1:1:1 random
cycles, 1:1:1:1 pipelined cycles, at 66MHz (well, at any MHz, though if
and when we promote a faster clock speed, faster cache will accompany it)."
3.1.5 Are other companies planing a MPU module
for the PIOS ONE?
Dave Haynie wrote in <199705162000.QAA25383@zeus.jersey.net>:
"None yet. I haven't formally published the CPU module specs, though
it's pretty clearly based on PCI if you look at the block diagram on our
Web site."
3.2 How's the memory configuration?
There are three slots for 64-bit 3.3V DIMMs on the MPU module. This will
allow up to 384 MB of memory (by inserting up to three 128 MB modules at
maximum).
Dave Haynie in <199705122054.QAA21806@zeus.jersey.net>:
"We're using 3.3V DIMM modules. [...] There are three good reasons
for using DIMMs -- they're 64-bit, versus the 32-bit SIMMs, they're available
in 3.3V packages (many of the new CPUs don't support +5V signalling at
all), and both synchronous and asynchronous DRAM are supported on the same
module."
3.2.1 Why not more memory slots?
Dave Haynie wrote in <199705140544.BAA49360@inca.gate.net>:
"The problem with too many DIMM sockets (other than obvious lack of
space on a CPU card), is the size and loading of the bus you get that way.
We're going 66MHz, and looking forward to running faster. That's not going
to happen if you put in eight DIMM modules, there will just be too much
delay in line lengths and loading."
3.2.2 Is the PIOS ONE able to use SDRAM?
Dave Haynie in <199703231944.OAA09727@zeus.jersey.net>:
"The design supports SDRAM (one of two primary reasons for using the
DIMM, the other being that's nearly double the board density for 64-bit
systems), but Motorola's current revision of the "Grackle" chip (MPC106)
does not. It does support EDO and FPM, though. SDRAM support is coming
in a future release of the Grackle chip."
and in <199704161932.PAA00156@zeus.jersey.net>:
"They [Motorola] don't have a date on working SDRAM support. I'm kind
of expecting it by the time [we] have the multiprocessor boards going,
but that's not quite certain yet. The basic CPU card design is meant to
support SDRAM."
3.2.3 Can I mix different memory module types
and sizes?
Yes, this will work, with these exceptions and limitations:
-
You can't mix FPM/EDO types with SDRAM;
-
If you mix FPM and EDO, you get FPM timing. (Not a big problem, but a limitation
of the current memory controller.)
3.2.4 What is memory going to cost me?
Dave Haynie wrote in <199705122054.QAA21806@zeus.jersey.net>:
"Right now, DIMMs are a bit more expensive than SIMMs for the same
size, maybe 10%-20% [...], and SDRAM is more expensive than EDO DRAM."
and:
"The nice thing about Intel's pushing for 3.3V DIMMs, and SDRAM as well,
is that, given their dominance in the PClone board market, these parts
won't command a premium for long."
3.2.5 How many DIMM modules will the PIOS ONE
have?
Dave Haynie wrote in <199705150417.AAA22420@zeus.jersey.net>:
"I expect we'll just ship with one DIMM; there's no reason for two,
and we can get a single DIMM in any memory size we'd like."
3.3 What's CHRP?
That is short for "Common Hardware Reference Platform". This standard describes
the basic features of a CHRP-compliant system (e.g. PIOS ONE).
This allows for the use of CHRP-style operating systems like the CHRP
version of MacOS. Because several hard-/software companies support CHRP
the user is not as much tied to a specific machine or OS.
CHRP is the same as PPCP ("PowerPC Common Hardware Platform") but not
the same as PReP ("PowerPC Reference Platform"), which was some early PPC
standard, but because Apple - as the biggest PPC manufacturer - did not
quite agree with PReP it was replaced by CHRP.
CHRP is often pronounced "chirp".
3.4 What's the "null series"?
These are the very first models of the PIOS ONE (after PIOS internal prototypes).
They are/will only be shipped to those people who subscribed for them,
because they needed a PIOS ONE fast (e.g. for development).
These machines will already come with the MPC 106 (first the MPC 105
was announced).
The "null series" will come in two versions, the "bare bones" and the
fully configured variant. These machines will only be available in limited
numbers and they are hand-signed by Dave Haynie.
For further infos (pricing, configuration etc.) look at http://www.pios.de/uk/PIOSONEAngeb.html
3.5 What is the Siamese System?
Dave Haynie in <199704101824.OAA14249@zeus.jersey.net>:
"The Siamese system integrates your existing A1200 into the PIOS One
system, basically. It lets you use the same keyboard and mouse for both
systems, lets the A1200 use the PIOS One's disk space and other I/O capabilities,
switches video between the two. The point being, you already have an Amiga,
why throw it away? As emulation technology improves, as the native OSs
get better support, you may not need your A1200 as much. But it's a reasonable
option today to keep your legacy programs around."
More information on this subject may be found at the webapges of HiQ,
the producer of the Siamese System (http://www.hiq.co.uk/).
3.6 What's on the mainboard?
(this part is under construction)
-
Card slots
-
MPU module slot
-
3 PCI slots
-
3 ISA slots (one ISA slot and one PCI slot are mutually exclusive in use)
-
Headers
-
Internal SCSI interface
-
IDE interface
-
Floppy interface
-
Sound header
-
MIDI header
-
IrDa header
-
Ports
-
2 USB ports
-
2 gameports
-
Audio in/out
-
Parallel port
-
2 RS-232 ports
-
2 RS-422 ports
-
PS/2 mouse/keyboard
-
Chips
3.6.1 What's that IrDa header?
IrDa is an organization (InfraRed Data Association) that specifies infrared
wireless communication standards for computers and pheripherals. The header
found on the PIOS ONE can be used to drive an IrDa compliant tranceiver
and can obtain data speeds up to 4 Mbit/s. See http://www.irda.org/.
Also, the controller will allow the much slower data rates used by common
infrared remote controllers.
You need a hardware add-on, and appropriate driver software to be able
to use this header.
3.7 What does the graphic hardware look like?
There is no graphics nor video custom hardware on the PIOS ONE mainboard.
Graphics hardware can be plugged into a PCI slot. Full versions of the
PIOS will come with such a PCI card.
For bare bones models, you basically pick the PCI graphic card that
best suits your needs, and that is supported by the operating systems you're
planning to run.
3.7.1 What graphics card will the PIOS ONE have?
It is not yet decided which of the available PCI-cards PIOS will choose.
This depends on the graphics card drivers supplied with the operating systems,
especially with BeOS.
3.7.2 Why don't they build custom graphics chips?
Because it is too expensive and the custom chips probably would not be
better than those from the graphics chip companies.
Dave Haynie in <199704130311.XAA14840@zeus.jersey.net>:
"IF you made something significantly better than everyone else working
on custom chips for the PC world to use. That's the problem. No
startup is going to have a tiny fraction of the money to spend on such
chips that the big graphics chip companies (or for that matter, the small
graphics chip companies) have to spend on development."
3.8 What case will the PIOS ONE have?
As the PIOS ONE motherboard complies with the ATX standard, you will be
able to use any ATX case you like. (There's a caveat however, read on).
But there is also a special ATX case (four 3,5" and three 5,25" bays)
for the PIOS ONE from PIOS with their logo on it.
Dr. Peter Kittel said in <m0wHqN2-000lEfC@mail.bs.tpl.net>:
"The mainboard is mounted on a sort of drawer which you can draw out
of the back of the case for easy access. The drive bays are rather standard
like in every contemporary PC case."
and in <m0wHs8B-000lEXC@mail.bs.tpl.net>:
"Occupied are 2 3.5" bays by floppy and harddisk, and 1 5.25" bay by
the CD-ROM. So after my count, we still have 2 5.25" bays and 2 3.5" bays
free, accessable from the outside. Yes, you can "knock-out" those bay covers."
and in <m0wJK2J-000lEhC@mail.bs.tpl.net>:
"19 cm wide, 42 cm deep, 48 cm high, weight still unknown, sorry."
Although the PIOS ONE mainboard complies with the ATX standard, the
second row of external connectors (MIDI, SCSI-2), which are situated above
the PCB-leveled ATX-knockout, do not fit in most other ATX cases. This
does not hold you from using another case, but you would have to cheat
by using the available knockouts to suite you best in order to get things
connected.
Dave Haynie on this in <199704171702.NAA07939@zeus.jersey.net>:
"That doesn't kill the use of the other casework, it's just not quite
as pretty as the PIOS One case."
Read more about ATX at http://www.teleport.com/~atx.
3.9 What are PIOS' future plans?
-
A multiprocessor board for the PIOS ONE.
Dave Haynie on this in <33b773aa.438806370@news.jersey.net>:
"And we do have plans for low-cost multiprocessing beyond this.
It's tough being a small startup and trying to do all this, but we're dedicated
to the idea, and it's happening, even if it's not going as fast as we had
hoped. Our CPU module concept does permit a fairly simple upgrade to a
four processor system, and this can be made with PPC603s or PPC750s, it
doesn't have to be super high-end PPC604s or PPC770s."
-
A 66 MHz PCI bus instead of the current 33 MHz one. At the moment, there
are no cards known to need 66 MHz.
-
Writing drivers for popular cards to use these in the PIOS ONE.
3.10 May the PIOS ONE use those PCI and ISA cards
from the PC?
Yes, there are both PCI and ISA slots on the motherboard. The question
is whether your OS (BeOS, pOS, Linux, MacOS, etc.) has driver-support for
the card, because the drivers that come with the hardware are usually for
MS-DOS and Windows.
3.11 Where to find technical references about PIOS
ONE ?
For techies, here's a (preliminary) list of links to technical data on
the major components, and their manufacturers, used in the PIOS ONE:
4 Software
4.1 Will I be able to stay Amiga compatible?
There are three ways of some sort of Amiga compatibility:
-
Un*x Amiga Emulator (UAE). Although becoming more useful every day, it
is slow in nature, and it is still unsure whether the PIOS ONE floppy controller
chip can be made to handle Amiga floppy formats.
-
p.OS, after recompilation of Amiga software for p.OS, which needs some
changes to program sources.
-
The Siamese system, by integrating the Amiga hardware in the PIOS ONE.
4.2 Operating systems
4.2.1 Available OSs for the PIOS machines
None so far.
4.2.2 OSs being ported to the PIOS machines
The planned OSs for the PIOS ONE are:
-
BeOS DR9 (developer pre-release for the soon public BeOS release was May
10th 1997)
-
MacOS CHRP (expected release date July 1997)
-
p.OS
-
Linux (is being made to run on the PIOS ONE by PIOS)
BeOS DR9 will be shipped with every PIOS ONE, as well as Linux.
MacOS CHRP is supposed to run out-of-the-box once available and will
be shipped with the Maxxtrem.
pOS will be shipped with the TransAM package. Differing from earlier
statements pOS will not run on top of BeOS but get its own kernel right
from the start.
4.2.3 Will I be able to choose the operating system
at startup?
Yes, on the final CHRP compliant version, you can choose which operating
system to boot with. You cannot run multiple OSs concurrently, however.
4.3 Software development
Fred Fish is coming with a set of GNU tools, like it existed in the form
of the Amiga Developer Environment, for the new OSs and PowerPC. The latest
ADE snapshots and the Geek Gadgets CD-ROM volume 2 are supposed to incorporate
p.OS development tools.
-
GCC for pOS (68k) and native pOS on the PowerPC.
-
GCC for BeOS on the PowerPC.
BeOS is shipped with a limited version of the CodeWarrior Integrated Development
Environment (IDE) by MetroWerks. The linker only handles up to 64 KB.
The Linux port will probably also have GCC.
StormC (Haage & Partner) is an C/C++ IDE for p.OS. It will also
allow for easy porting of AmigaOS applications to p.OS to PPC.
4.4 But how about real productivity applications?
This is always a weak point with new systems, because they usually lack
a large software pool.
The PIOS ONE has an advantage over other platforms because you can run
various operating systems on it. If an application is not (yet) available
for an OS, you may find it on some other OS.
The PIOS ONE will come with StarOffice 3.1 for Linux.
Along with the DR9 of BeOS there will also be some productivity software.
Microsoft recently licensed the WinWord file-format to one BeOS developer.
If you run MacOS on a PIOS ONE (either you got it with the Maxxtrem
or you bought it for the transAM) you will be able to use the MacOS applications
that are available for PowerMacs.
5 Companies
5.1 PIOS Computer AG
PIOS (The PIOS team includes some former member of Commodore Amiga and Amiga
Technologies. Among others there are Dave Haynie, Andy Finkel, Dr. Peter
Kittel, Stefan Domeyer and John Smith.
5.2 Be Inc.
Be Inc. (http://www.be.com/)is the company
behind the BeOS, a modern and lean operating system. Their website contains
a large FAQ on
the OS.
The latest news on BeOS and the PPC scene in general may be found at Beforever.
5.3 Motorola
Motorola (http://www.mot.com/) is, among
other things, one of the developers of the PowerPC MPU series. They plan
to release the first G3 MPUs this year. G3 is the next generation of microprocessors
after the G2 chips (e.g. PPC603e) which will be used in the first PIOS
ONE MPU module.
5.4 proDad
proDad (http://www.prodad.de/) does
graphics/video software and develops the AmigaOS clone pOS, a portable
operating system with enhancements over the original AmigaOS.
6 Miscellaneous
6.1 What are all those abbrevations?
-
ADB - Apple Desktop Bus
-
CPU - Central Processing Unit
-
DR9 - Developers Release 9, the first public release of BeOS
-
EDO - Extended Data Out
-
GCC - GNU C Compiler
-
GNU - GNU's Not Unix
-
FPM - Fast Page Mode
-
IDE - Integrated Development Enviroment (or Integrated Drive Electronics)
-
IrDa - Infrared Data Association
-
MPU - Micro Processing Unit (a CPU in a SMP system)
-
OS - Operating System
-
SMC - Standard Microsystems Corporation
-
SMP - Symmetric Multiprocessing
-
UAE - Un*x (/Usable/Unambigitious) Amiga Emulator
6.2 Things that do not suck [tm]
As people got bored waiting for the PIOS ONE computer they spent their
time with :
-
In-depth hardware talks with Dave
-
Jolt Cola
-
Beer
-
Wondering about Apple's management
-
Emulators and Siamese battles
-
A/Box vapor specs
-
Killer subscriptions that bounced every message in the list
BACK
Last Update: 1/11/2001
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